Breakfast Meeting 6:56 am - 8:29 am Friday, July 29, 2022 | (UTC-07:00) Arizona Reggie Bates Paul Bartal Clotilda T Barker Beth Rich Elder Merit Mary Ryan Marta Kalleberg Julio Rodney Lucas Alex Harris Lisa Edney Manish Arora Becky Sandra Hemmingsen Thomas Kealy GradyFullerA Amy Bennett Mikayla Martin Kirk Brandon Jennifer Blankenship Jaime Gomez Jim Ballard Amy Timmons Kim Essendrup Kristi |TankGirl Marketing Matt Henderson Jody Reyes Mike Mike Carter Ed Kromer Jennifer Columbe David Thorpe Ronald Rubio Lori Carrie Van Sickle Mike Sanders Mary Beth Peter Neil Anderson Frances Dawn Feltner Al Tomlinson andrea jones Kate Anderson Scott Steinhagen John Finnan Kelci Vo Kristie A Donovan Catherine Estrada ashleigh Wendy Torrance Justin Peyton Kevin Abney Brendan Elliott Cortney Felix Carling Olson LisaLapp Call-in User_9 Call-in User_8 Qur'an Nero Ronnie Sheila Richard Noll Theresa Keller Grant McAllister Trish Kingsbury events@pmiphx.org Milan Dordevic Robert Loy Joe Maloney Cassandra Larson rejerger Julie Koo Jeff Kinney Kori Call-in User_3 Al Watkins Call-in User_2 Cynthia Kerford Call-in User_5 Terri Thompson Call-in User_7 Donna Califano Erica Bullock Jason B Danica Bunjevic Curtis Anderson Jen Williams Krystal Sheppard-Eppinger Shalom Eva Morris Rebecca Early Daniel Cronin Shilpa Stephen Flaaen Donna Johnsen Nick Lyle Yurie Levack Glenn bobgiese Deb Liliana Piedrahita Kent Anthony Kaitlyn Elkind Tore Bonanno Ken Goebel Sandra WEBVTT 1 events@pmiphx.org 00:00:11.360 --> 00:00:13.395 So, sorry, if you're waiting. 2 Paul Bartal 00:00:14.565 --> 00:00:17.205 Not a problem thanks for filling in for. 3 Milan Dordevic 00:00:22.575 --> 00:00:24.075 How is going morning so far? 4 events@pmiphx.org 00:00:26.234 --> 00:00:27.554 Too early for me. 5 Paul Bartal 00:00:30.164 --> 00:00:30.374 Are you. 6 Milan Dordevic 00:00:30.374 --> 00:00:31.814 Working from home Stephanie. 7 events@pmiphx.org 00:00:32.203 --> 00:00:33.764 Yeah, yeah, I worked for them. 8 Milan Dordevic 00:00:34.694 --> 00:00:36.044 They came in the office ordered. 9 events@pmiphx.org 00:00:38.864 --> 00:00:43.124 I had to travel that would even be worse, get somewhere else. 10 Milan Dordevic 00:00:47.055 --> 00:00:49.455 I'm lucky that my office is in the same street. 11 events@pmiphx.org 00:00:50.085 --> 00:00:50.415 Oh. 12 Milan Dordevic 00:00:50.775 --> 00:00:53.115 So, it's 5 minutes. 13 events@pmiphx.org 00:00:53.745 --> 00:00:54.255 Yeah. 14 Milan Dordevic 00:00:56.504 --> 00:00:57.284 Convenient. 15 Paul Bartal 00:00:58.454 --> 00:00:59.294 Worked out real well. 16 Paul Bartal 00:01:02.804 --> 00:01:06.704 I see you've got the recording on, I don't know if you want to pause until we start the meeting. 17 Paul Bartal 00:26:37.560 --> 00:26:44.605 Available feel free to take yourself off mute and introduce yourself if you're looking for a position or know of some openings out there. 18 Paul Bartal 00:27:13.025 --> 00:27:14.075 About the position. 19 Qur'an Nero 00:27:14.525 --> 00:27:22.895 Yeah, I can, I can grab it. It's on the state's website dot. Gov. I think it is. I can I can see if I can grab that link for you. 20 Paul Bartal 00:27:23.375 --> 00:27:28.055 Okay, yeah, if you put that in the chat, that would help be a big help, but thank you for that. Appreciate. 21 Paul Bartal 00:27:37.295 --> 00:27:56.135 Okay, all right then I'd like to share a couple of reminders for events happening. Within the chapter in the month of August 1st is on August 4th, there's a workshop called the art of navigating risk and change. It is a 6 event is going to be held on August. The 4th from 90 am to 3. 0. P. M. 22 Paul Bartal 00:28:11.360 --> 00:28:15.525 The 1st, 3, Saturdays a month, there is a PM. 23 Paul Bartal 00:28:27.095 --> 00:28:37.295 Get some support in your studies uh, also on Tuesday, the 9th and Tuesday, the 23rd project masters that's the Toastmasters group sponsored by the Phoenix. 24 Paul Bartal 00:29:06.520 --> 00:29:27.125 The panel panel event that we're involved in many of you have attended in the past to check that out on the 19th and last, but not least our virtual breakfast meeting is going to be on Friday. The 26th of August 730 am just like the 1 that started today. So please come check it out. 25 Paul Bartal 00:29:27.814 --> 00:29:30.484 For more information just go to. 26 Paul Bartal 00:29:30.544 --> 00:29:51.634 Dot org slash calendar and look up the August events take advantage of those PD opportunities when you can. Okay. All right. Uh, only other thing is, if you have interest in speaking at a future breakfast meeting, I do have quite a few dates in the year 2023 available. So you've got plenty of lead time. I've got the. 27 Paul Bartal 00:30:02.420 --> 00:30:20.205 If you have any kind of topic, it's on your mind, just feel free to reach out. To me. I'll put my email address in the chat, and we can talk about it, but I'd love to have some, some new speakers in the year 2023. that are able to speak to us and share some information about it your favorite project management related topic. 28 events@pmiphx.org 00:30:20.835 --> 00:30:23.175 Oh, I see that Mary Ryan has her hand. 29 Paul Bartal 00:30:23.804 --> 00:30:25.484 Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead. 30 Mary Ryan 00:30:25.514 --> 00:30:34.724 Hi, Paul, um, I just wanted to see if we were had any plans to bring back the evening chapter. meeting's live in person. 31 Mary Ryan 00:30:36.495 --> 00:30:38.025 I haven't seen those for a while. 32 events@pmiphx.org 00:30:55.520 --> 00:31:01.635 Hold over the summer, and then we're looking and planning for it sometime in the fall. 33 Mary Ryan 00:31:03.555 --> 00:31:04.305 All right Thank you. 34 events@pmiphx.org 00:31:04.725 --> 00:31:05.205 Mm, hmm. 35 Paul Bartal 00:31:06.854 --> 00:31:07.544 For the question. 36 Paul Bartal 00:31:09.944 --> 00:31:14.864 Any other questions before we get things started with our future presenters today. 37 Paul Bartal 00:31:17.744 --> 00:31:37.784 Okay, great. Well, we do have an excellent presentation today, uh, with 2 speakers. I'd like to go ahead and share background for key speakers. 1st is Kate Anderson. She hates say podcast or product manager, dungeon, master and massage writer for the last 10 years. Kate's been unblocking step problems and giving. 38 Paul Bartal 00:31:40.185 --> 00:32:01.275 Move forward Kate is currently a senior product manager at PayPal leading the cloud portfolio products. Finally, Kate also Co host the podcast PM. Happy hour learning out about project management techniques. Good communication and tools with our other hosts. Kim essendrup. Kim is the CO, founder of the comb group. 39 Paul Bartal 00:32:05.780 --> 00:32:26.595 The organizations implementing PM tools and providing mentorship and coaching aspiring project leaders for over 20 years. His favorite work is hanging out with chatting about project management on the PM happy hour podcast and they'll tell you more about their podcast here soon. The title of their presentation. Is imposter syndrome. 40 Paul Bartal 00:32:26.929 --> 00:32:34.334 Diagnosis and treatment, it's my pleasure to turn things over to Kate Anderson and Kim essendrup over to you guys thanks so much. 41 Kim Essendrup 00:32:35.925 --> 00:32:36.855 Morning everybody. 42 Kate Anderson 00:32:37.755 --> 00:32:38.985 Thanks for that introduction. 43 Kim Essendrup 00:32:39.705 --> 00:32:40.965 Yeah, good morning. 44 Kim Essendrup 00:32:45.520 --> 00:32:46.895 A consultant and trainer. 45 Kate Anderson 00:32:47.375 --> 00:32:51.965 And I am Kate recovering project manager and exploratory product manager. 46 Kim Essendrup 00:32:53.285 --> 00:32:57.995 And we have made all of the mistakes if we're going to talk about here today. 47 Kate Anderson 00:32:58.805 --> 00:33:06.605 And if you're not familiar with you, I'm happy hour. Haven't listened to our podcast before uh, no worries not required, but just for some context. Our podcast is. 48 Kate Anderson 00:33:06.669 --> 00:33:21.544 Casual, but honest, talk about tough subjects in project management. We absolutely do not pretend to have all the answers, but hopefully, uh, through the experiences we're sharing today, we'll have some lessons learned to share and, uh, it'll be fun and interactive today. 49 Kim Essendrup 00:33:22.294 --> 00:33:27.754 Yep, and if you, if you like her talk today, we do have a podcast. We record it regularly so come check it out. 50 Kim Essendrup 00:33:28.204 --> 00:33:33.154 We also have a membership community where you can jump on and get coaching and. 51 Kim Essendrup 00:33:33.364 --> 00:33:37.294 Other project management nerds like sand yourselves. 52 Kate Anderson 00:33:39.094 --> 00:33:48.964 So, with that, we can get into imposter syndrome today. This is actually a topic that we've had a requests from our PM. Happy hour. 53 Kate Anderson 00:34:08.985 --> 00:34:15.315 Uh, there's a couple of things that are new for me in my career over the past couple of months. Uh, and I'm managing a team. 54 Call-in User_5 00:34:15.405 --> 00:34:15.554 For. 55 Kate Anderson 00:34:15.554 --> 00:34:29.534 The 1st time got a lot of fear that I'm doing that wrong, uh, going into product management was something that I've been curious about is somebody who's always been delivering and managing and trying to make sure things are successful. I was like, well, what does product management do, but all the time. 56 Kate Anderson 00:34:29.594 --> 00:34:50.714 I think I have no experience and I guess this is all a lie and I don't say that out loud to folks, but it's something that I worry about on the inside. Uh, and so I just want to, you know, sort of set the stage by being like, this is something that I also struggle with, even with all the accomplishments that I have in my career and also the failures I don't want to be, like, the crew's been rosy, uh, but this is those are just some things that I. 57 Kim Essendrup 00:35:04.620 --> 00:35:25.765 To a sales and sales management role, which is new for me. And it's scary if you've if you've ever stepped your foot into the sales world, you know, it's, it's really challenging if that's not your background. And the stakes are pretty high, because if you don't if you aren't able to build relationships and make business happen, then you know that that's not healthy for the organization. And so it's a lot to carry. 58 Kim Essendrup 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:41.315 This, and so seemed like a great topic for us to explore and very fitting for both of us. 59 Kim Essendrup 00:35:43.295 --> 00:35:56.375 So, Kate, what is imposter syndrome? Exactly. And I asked that because I feel like, if I try to answer that, I'd be pretending to be more than I want more than I am. And maybe I'm really not qualified or good enough to answer that question. 60 Kate Anderson 00:35:59.434 --> 00:36:19.474 Well, I, I feel like I'm not qualified either. Uh, unfortunately, uh, it's just another person who works and delivers things for a living. But if I were to Google, this get all Wikipedia I can just read that off the page to you. Uh, so imposter syndrome, which is also known as imposter phenomenon and. 61 Kate Anderson 00:36:20.434 --> 00:36:24.574 Prod syndrome or impostor experience? Many many words. There. 62 Kim Essendrup 00:36:25.564 --> 00:36:26.704 And. 63 Kate Anderson 00:36:26.704 --> 00:36:36.064 Foster is pretty good. Yeah, I'm suffering from imposter ISM today. Um, but it's a psychological pattern in which an individual doubts their skills. 64 Call-in User_3 00:36:36.064 --> 00:36:36.604 Talents. 65 Kate Anderson 00:36:36.634 --> 00:36:40.624 Accomplishments and has a persistent internalized fear of being. 66 Kate Anderson 00:36:40.655 --> 00:36:57.455 Exposed as a fraud, and this can be despite external evidence of their competence those experiencing this phenomenon remain convinced that they are frauds and do not deserve what they have achieved individuals with impossed. Terrorism incorrectly attribute their success. 67 Call-in User_3 00:36:57.455 --> 00:36:57.635 To. 68 Kate Anderson 00:36:57.635 --> 00:37:01.745 Or the Mathew effect, or, for example, the. 69 Kate Anderson 00:37:01.779 --> 00:37:09.394 Incorrectly interpret it as a result of deceiving others into thinking they are more intelligent than they perceive themselves to be. 70 Kim Essendrup 00:37:12.305 --> 00:37:32.795 Yeah, and, you know, it's, um, it's what's funny about it is that it's pervasive. We see so many people who have this. So for for our members for members, we do, we do 1 on 1 coach, and we make that available. So, we really get an opportunity to go and speak with a lot of members of a lot of different levels of. 71 Kim Essendrup 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:53.825 Those newer to the profession, some middle career, some very, very experienced with a lot of years experience, and great accomplishments under their belt. And it's interesting. Everybody has it and we see it all the time. And so it's it's okay if you've got this affliction, if you feel like, you've got a. 72 Kate Anderson 00:38:00.565 --> 00:38:08.095 Yeah, and I, I'd say that when i1st read this, I was like, I don't feel like I'm a fraud. I just can't believe they picked me for the job. 73 Kate Anderson 00:38:09.744 --> 00:38:30.774 Is you know, like, a little bit of the changing of the language? So, some of the other, like, things that we'll hear is, like, am I doing this? Right? Right? Like, uh, just a constant fear that people believe that they're not doing their project management job. Well, or that There'll be an expectation that mentioned mismatches against reality and they'll say, well, that means that I don't know what I'm doing and so. 74 Kate Anderson 00:38:30.805 --> 00:38:51.925 Those are some things that come up for you uh, this, this still all applies. Uh, and so I, I don't necessarily feel like I'm a fraud, but sometimes I feel like I can't do it even though I have years of experience that I should be able to stand on and say yeah, of course, I can learn how to do this instead. I sometimes I'm like, oh, gosh, I can't accomplish that. So those are other types of. 75 Kate Anderson 00:38:51.929 --> 00:39:00.144 Personalized language that you may be saying to yourself. Uh, so we just want to say that it doesn't have to be a fraud, but we hear it in multiple different ways. 76 Kim Essendrup 00:39:01.284 --> 00:39:13.074 And, you know, it's not just about the job that you have. I see it. Maybe even more impactful from an opportunity cost for the job that you don't have. Yet. What I mean by that is that. 77 Kim Essendrup 00:39:13.194 --> 00:39:34.224 A lot of the coaching that we do and supporting of the community are people who are going out and trying to get a job we're doing. We're working with them on interview coaching. They've got scenario based interviews or trying to figure out where the, where to take their career next. And what I've really what I've noticed is that in career coaching women in particular, when you look for that next step. 78 Kim Essendrup 00:39:46.900 --> 00:39:59.585 And take that on, or if I should try and take that step and I see, I see that for men as well. But it's interesting. I actually seem feel like I see that more for women looking at kind of that next run ladder up in a career. 79 Kate Anderson 00:40:00.215 --> 00:40:08.045 Uh, and I, I think what's really interesting is that, you know, whoever you're talking to, it's almost it's, it's so wild because you're on the outside. Right? So. 80 Kate Anderson 00:40:08.224 --> 00:40:28.684 You'll you'll look at their resume, they'll talk about their experience and then you'll look at the job description that they're potentially considering and and and your, and it feels like what they're saying to you is am I really qualified for this job that I literally have all the experience on my resume for, and it's like, how could that be true? Uh, of course you're qualified uh, like, yes. 81 Kate Anderson 00:40:29.224 --> 00:40:43.084 Uh, it's, it's really interesting to see how people hold themselves back thinking that they haven't accomplished something cause they haven't specifically met like like, with the same words, a requirement and then they think, well, I'm not qualified, but that couldn't possibly translate. 82 Kim Essendrup 00:40:44.314 --> 00:40:49.804 Yeah, is anybody here felt that way show of hands? I don't know how the Webex works that. 83 Kim Essendrup 00:40:54.325 --> 00:40:54.805 Oh, yeah. 84 Kim Essendrup 00:40:59.274 --> 00:41:17.694 Well, um, so, 11 of the things that I've noticed about imposter syndrome is that it, it's not just inside it affects your confidence and that in turn affects how people see you if you're not confident other people aren't going to be confident in you. It's almost like they can smell that, you. 85 Kim Essendrup 00:41:17.729 --> 00:41:38.274 Exhibit it through your body language and how you speak and how you communicate. And so if you show up without confidence, you can kind of get eaten alive particularly if you're in the consultant world. Like me, if you show up and you're working with a client, and you're not confident yourself and what you're doing, because you've got a little bit of this imposter syndrome, customer sense it your customer sense. It, they'll call it out. They smell it. And. 86 Kim Essendrup 00:41:39.294 --> 00:41:58.074 Then they make it hard for you, because they lose competency. You, they start questioning you and that in turn creates a self fulfilling prophecy. Because now, customer doesn't have confidence in you, which just competence even more and it says terrible, terrible downward cycle. That starts with just that. 87 Kim Essendrup 00:41:59.035 --> 00:42:02.035 Starts with having a little bit of imposter syndrome. 88 Kate Anderson 00:42:02.485 --> 00:42:19.735 Um, and the biggest thing I've noticed is how it's, how, that that holds you back and you, you don't realize how you're basically, it's, it's insidious to say that, that you're choosing cause I don't want to say that this is something that people choose on purpose but it can appear that you're choosing to operate below your. 89 Kate Anderson 00:42:38.260 --> 00:42:59.405 They'll start with, um, uh, just some comments from the peanut gallery followed by the most distinct, correct gorgeous, uh, clarity providing feedback and then say, okay, I'll just jump back now to, which I can't believe that they're doing that service to their years of experience and expertise in the field and how much. 90 Kate Anderson 00:42:59.434 --> 00:43:20.554 We need their guidance, so it can, it can show up in a lot of ways. Uh, and and to be clear, this is not your fault, right? Uh, we receive carefully crafted, marketed messages all the time. Hashtag, blame social media hashtag. Hashtag. Uh, and so there are people who want you to believe that you couldn't have what they have, or. 91 Kate Anderson 00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:41.704 That you can't have it until you've done everything that they've done. So, at times there's a bit of a social media effect where we only post our successes, or when people post failures they're like, so elegant about it. Like, wow, you really failed. Good. And I can't feel good. We all can we're all capable of succeeding with elegance, failing with elegance or. 92 Kate Anderson 00:43:41.709 --> 00:43:50.404 Being as a mess or failing as a mess, it's, it's, it's, it's really has a lot to do with comparison of these outside messages that you get. 93 Kim Essendrup 00:43:51.484 --> 00:44:02.854 Yeah, and sometimes in some should I say less healthy workspaces some organizations are not very supportive. There can be a lot of, I guess micro aggressions might be the way to. 94 Kim Essendrup 00:44:02.884 --> 00:44:21.754 Column a lot of little knocks passive, aggressive behavior you can even see some managers, they sort of put down team members or something like this. And that breaks confidence, which feeds into this whole self fulfilling imposter syndrome. And it can be a real problem that perpetuates itself. 95 Kate Anderson 00:44:24.725 --> 00:44:28.475 Kim, did you want to talk about an organization that you met with imposter syndrome? 96 Kim Essendrup 00:44:30.004 --> 00:44:50.644 I do, you know, we here, we've been talking about people having imposter syndrome, but was really funny. I was actually working with a project management organization out of Germany this past last week. Actually, and they were very intent on on getting me engaged to help provide some consultation because. 97 Kim Essendrup 00:44:53.125 --> 00:45:13.945 Apparently, and it was terrible. They had no idea what they're doing. They never knew what was going on. They and they were trying to pull themselves up and really transform the organization. So, I said, I don't know if I can do that in a 3 hour call, but let's see what we can do. So, we jumped on a phone call with them and just started talking through. Okay. What are you doing? What your approaches. 98 Kim Essendrup 00:45:14.214 --> 00:45:34.974 What are you trying to do? And, and they would talk about a topic like resource management, and they would tell me what they're trying to do and I said, oh, well, have you tried this? This, this and that and they said oh, yeah. That we're doing exactly that I said okay, well, that's good. And we talked about what about reporting and they said, well, Here's what we need and I said, well, Here's some typical approaches they said oh, yeah. We're doing all that. 99 Kim Essendrup 00:45:35.574 --> 00:45:56.364 And so we got towards the end of the call, and they said, well, and I said, well, you know, actually, I think you're on the right track and ran it down for them. And it really blew their minds that their organization, their project management organization was very flawed and it wasn't perfect then they still had a lot of work to do and it was okay. And so it was. 100 Kim Essendrup 00:45:56.394 --> 00:46:17.064 Really interesting to see that that they had this impression that their organization was very bad and it was starting to become a self fulfilling prophecy. They're certainly have some problems when really if they had just accepted, Here's where we are. And it's really not that bad. And we're making good progress and focused on that then they would be in a much better place and they're actually changing some of their behaviors now. But. 101 Kim Essendrup 00:46:17.544 --> 00:46:33.744 I guess tomorrow the story is, we talk a lot about imposter syndrome in the context of a person, and how I can hold you back and make it hard to progress but it's much bigger than that. It's teams. It's its entire organizations can have that feeling that they're not good enough or they're not good and it will hold the organization back as well. 102 Kate Anderson 00:46:35.394 --> 00:46:38.604 So, let's go ahead and, uh, sort of talk about some. 103 Kate Anderson 00:46:38.695 --> 00:46:41.515 Treatment options, I guess. 104 Kate Anderson 00:46:41.605 --> 00:46:59.635 Doctors today prescribing treatment. Uh, so, 1st, things. 1st, uh, I think it's important to identify. Are you falling into the trap? Uh, or is there some part of your either in work or your personal life where you tell yourself that you're crap. 105 Kate Anderson 00:47:00.324 --> 00:47:20.634 In my, uh, intro, uh, from Paul earlier. Uh, he mentioned I am a dressage writer. Correct. Uh, but I often say I'm crap at writing, which isn't fair to me. I've been doing it for years. I am skilled. I'm just not as good as I wish I was so, it's not fair to myself. Whenever I say, I'm a crap writer. Um, and the reason why I say that is because. 106 Kate Anderson 00:47:21.234 --> 00:47:40.044 When we're trying to treat this stuff, do you have actual evidence that you are not good at your job? Do you have real tangible evidence? You could point to that you are a liar a failure uh, not good enough. Like, do you have outside of feedback that you're not good at your job? 107 Kim Essendrup 00:47:42.264 --> 00:47:55.554 Yeah, I don't know when it comes to trying to figure out if you really have. I always like the Ghostbusters line. If somebody asks you if you're a God you say yes. So somebody asks if you're a great project manager, you say yes. 108 Kate Anderson 00:47:56.574 --> 00:48:03.174 And 1 of the things that I'd like to point out, uh, both to our listeners, and also to this audience here, like, I think it's a. 109 Kate Anderson 00:48:03.294 --> 00:48:24.414 Huge credit to people who continue to show up for continual education. Right? How how bad could you be if you are here working through, uh, new skills, seeking out new experiences uh, trying to learn new things like there's so, it's, it's not always about effort but but I think 90% of it is so, uh, yeah. 110 Kate Anderson 00:48:24.445 --> 00:48:45.265 Sheila fake until you make it part of part of that's real you can only get experienced by working your way through this. And and to that fake until you make it our 1st treatment. Then treatment plan suggestion is to tell your doubts, I'll figure it out to tell yourself like, it's okay. I, I, I have skills I can do this and. 111 Kate Anderson 00:48:45.594 --> 00:48:50.544 And, uh, to just start with what, you know, and and move forward from that. 112 Kim Essendrup 00:48:51.624 --> 00:49:06.714 If I can jump on that case, so this I like to go back to project management is when you start a project, do you know absolutely everything on day? 1 everything that's going to happen? No, of course, not part of your process is figuring stuff out and it's the same thing. I don't have the answers. I just. 113 Kim Essendrup 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:11.575 You need and you'll get there. 114 Kate Anderson 00:49:13.255 --> 00:49:24.595 Uh, and another thing you can do, uh, aside if you, if it's hard for you to, to to pump up your own cheerleader on the inside, uh, get a cheerleader on the outside. 115 Kim Essendrup 00:49:26.185 --> 00:49:30.205 I'm sorry, I just realized that we've been talking so much. I forgot about my slide. Sorry. 116 Kate Anderson 00:49:30.805 --> 00:49:31.375 Hey, I was. 117 Kate Anderson 00:49:31.614 --> 00:49:35.154 So I said, I was like, we're just going to go and I'm not gonna bring it up. 118 Kim Essendrup 00:49:35.964 --> 00:49:41.334 Oh, well, I just look I, we have great slides that I put time into look. Here's here's Kate. 119 Kate Anderson 00:49:41.604 --> 00:49:42.384 In the same shirt. 120 Kim Essendrup 00:49:43.284 --> 00:49:47.364 Same shirt. Very good. Sorry? Treatment options. Here. We are work got it. 121 Kate Anderson 00:49:47.634 --> 00:49:47.994 For that. 122 Kate Anderson 00:49:48.414 --> 00:50:09.534 So, if you if you can't rally your own inside cheerleader, uh, we definitely recommend getting an outside cheerleader, uh, small plug for us Kim, and I offer coaching. And a ton of what we've done is tell folks that they already have the skills they need to do things. And I have also been coach, I've sought out coaching as well. And ultimately, it's the same thing. These coaches will just ask questions until you realize that. 123 Kate Anderson 00:50:09.565 --> 00:50:30.685 The answers were inside of you all along so, but if you don't want to seek a coach, you can talk to a mentor that you have. I've talked to Kim dozens of times about various problems that I've struggled with. I've reached out to other folks at my network and talk to them and I've also talked to even talking to my spouse who isn't in my field, or has the expertise that I have. 124 Kate Anderson 00:50:30.714 --> 00:50:51.444 Just them having the just the feedback to be, like, I don't know, it sounds like you've done that before, from their perspective. Uh, so just sharing things outside and having folks outside of you be able to give you that validation is a a huge, uh, a huge way to help yourself combat, uh, any internalized thoughts. And I'm a big Rene brown reader. 125 Kate Anderson 00:50:51.985 --> 00:51:12.955 Renee brown talks about shame, Gremlins and you have to what does it name it name it to frame it or something like that she's got something fun. Uh, but by by saying, I'm afraid, I can't do this and having someone say, why not I've seen you do this a dozen times, freeze yourself up to be able to go forward and do something new name. It. Detainment. Thank you. Don. I knew there'd be a. 126 Kim Essendrup 00:51:13.014 --> 00:51:13.434 Here on here. 127 Kim Essendrup 00:51:15.834 --> 00:51:36.954 Yeah, and it's, you know, I like the parallel back I was in Eagle Scout when I was young. And when you're orienteering on a map for you to the 1st thing you have to do, when you're trying to plot a course is you have to know where you are right now. And to do that, you use your compass and you have to triangulate your position. You can't just say, oh, I think I'm right here you have to look at where you are in relation to things around, you. 128 Kim Essendrup 00:51:37.374 --> 00:51:57.594 It's the same thing here. You are kind of caught up in yourself if you've got some imposter syndrome, we're feeling down on yourself and triangulate that talk to mentors, talk to colleagues, friends, family, spouses and really talk through it and get it out. And that triangulation. I think you'll find that you're really not not in better position as you might think you are. 129 Kate Anderson 00:51:58.315 --> 00:52:19.075 And 1 of the things I've learned, uh, in my new time as a manager is, it is hard to give if your manager cares. Okay. So, because there's some managers, we've all had them, well, had a terrible manager from the under dark who lives to ruin our days. But if you, if you don't have that manager, you have somebody who's like a decent person. It's hard to give. 130 Kate Anderson 00:52:19.375 --> 00:52:40.375 Uh, bad or constructive or feedback, because you, you want these people that you work with to want to keep working with you, you want to have good working relationships and crafting feedback is a skill and not. Everybody is good at it. So, it is unlikely if you reach out to somebody who has, like, sees you and values you as a person that they're gonna say. Yeah that's. 131 Kate Anderson 00:52:40.409 --> 00:53:01.554 Right. You do suck like, it's so much more likely. They're going to tell you that they appreciate you on their team that they like, working with you that and bring out some strengths that you have and you can even if you need it, start the conversation by saying, hey, could you share what you think some strengths of mine are so that they are primed to give you positive reinforcement if that's what you need in that moment. 132 Kate Anderson 00:53:01.885 --> 00:53:19.735 And then you can after getting pumped up, you could say, okay, is there 1 piece of feedback in an area of improvement you'd like to give me so you can even balance out like, I've got, like, 3 good things that I'm really good at and I can lean on, and then 1 thing I can work on if you need to feed the little Gremlin that wants like, improvement constantly. 133 Kim Essendrup 00:53:21.115 --> 00:53:22.705 Yeah, and I'll give everybody on the. 134 Kim Essendrup 00:53:22.734 --> 00:53:43.854 Call a little bit of boost right now if you're feeling some imposter syndrome, because if you're starting, if you're looking at where you're at, and you start and you having a little feeling of imposter syndrome, it's it's okay, because it's actually something we see very common among very capable people and the reason and the reason that is is because if you're very. 135 Kim Essendrup 00:53:43.885 --> 00:54:03.655 Capable you understand what's out there and what's possible and the levels of skills that you can potentially attain and you're made. But the problem is, you're measuring yourself against that. So if you're feeling imposter syndrome, it's actually a very good symptom. That you are probably highly qualified. And probably, very motivated, so actually thumbs up to you and all of us. 136 Kate Anderson 00:54:05.095 --> 00:54:06.055 All of us. 137 Kim Essendrup 00:54:06.085 --> 00:54:08.575 All those all those yeah. Try hards out there. 138 Kate Anderson 00:54:10.135 --> 00:54:20.845 Uh, another, another a treatment, uh, that I use all the time, uh, is to give yourself a mantra, but I would also include in mantra. Uh, guttural sounds if needed. 139 Kate Anderson 00:54:22.404 --> 00:54:43.074 Sometimes, if I am really stressed out about something and really feel like, I'm doubting my ability to do something, I will literally just like, uh, uh, very loudly top of my lungs in my, thank goodness. Home office to be able to just like, shake off. Some of the nerves, um, uh, and then after I grown about it, then I. 140 Kate Anderson 00:54:43.105 --> 00:55:04.195 Try to tell myself something that I can stick to is in mantra. That reminds me that, uh, I'm growing and these things are are normal and that I can still achieve it. Um, I have 1 mentor in my life who I adore and 1 of the things he gave me was well, if you're not a little worried, if you're not like a little scared, then you're not growing. And he's. 141 Kate Anderson 00:55:23.555 --> 00:55:29.285 Like, nervous, or afraid that I'm bad or not good. It just means I'm learning a new skill. 142 Kim Essendrup 00:55:30.394 --> 00:55:50.944 My favorite is, if something is worth doing, it's worth starting poorly and you should revel in it. And so this is my dad advice to my kids all the time. So that's right. But years ago I was really, really overweight. My blood chemistry was really off. I had some health problems and so I decided. 143 Kim Essendrup 00:55:51.634 --> 00:56:12.304 Being, uh, 40 pounds heavier than I am now, which I'm not a slim guy, but 40 pounds. That's more. I decided I was going to do a triathlon and talk about starting poorly. It was it was a rolling train wreck for the whole course. But, you know what, I started poorly and gradually got better and knocked out 800 demands after that. So. 144 Kim Essendrup 00:56:13.024 --> 00:56:13.684 You know, it's. 145 Kate Anderson 00:56:14.524 --> 00:56:18.244 Called that you that you, you shared with me early on. 146 Kim Essendrup 00:56:18.274 --> 00:56:18.634 Oh. 147 Kate Anderson 00:56:18.664 --> 00:56:19.294 Started this. 148 Kim Essendrup 00:56:19.744 --> 00:56:33.754 This the book I read and, uh, was my guide was called the slow fat. I learned a lot from that. 1 but, yeah, I mean, jump in rebel in being a newbie. 149 Kim Essendrup 00:56:33.785 --> 00:56:39.635 Time you're newbie, it's an opportunity to grow and change and develop and that's what it's about. Otherwise it gets boring. 150 Kate Anderson 00:56:40.025 --> 00:56:54.905 Uh, the, uh, pulling in another brown ISM here, uh, my version of the, if it's worth doing starting poorly, uh, I love the 1st draft worst draft because I love rhyming. But also, because, uh, I've, I've made that. 151 Kate Anderson 00:56:54.909 --> 00:57:15.664 Is a staple of my team, because not only am I trying to say that a bit. Like, my 1st draft is going to suck but also your 1st draft can suck like, it's okay to make bad 1st, drafts and man. Sometimes I just say that to myself, when I'm like, this is the stupidest worst presentation I've ever made or this is the worst wiki document I've ever made. 152 Kate Anderson 00:57:16.084 --> 00:57:37.204 I just hate them cause they're not polished, but that's not how things start right? Like, no book was written in 1 sitting no piece of art was made in 1 sitting all the pieces of art. We see. In museums. There were dozens and dozens of rejects before. They got to that 1 that they kept so your 1st draft is always gonna suck, even though you demand perfection and you want it to be excellent it's always gonna suck. So, uh, I just. 153 Kate Anderson 00:57:37.234 --> 00:57:40.204 Keep repeating repeating that for this. 154 Kim Essendrup 00:57:40.984 --> 00:57:43.684 That's actually 1 of my favorite. I use that all the time. 155 Kate Anderson 00:57:43.924 --> 00:57:50.974 It's so good it's 1st, draft draft. Like, it just lets you be, like, get off my back little Gremlin. Yeah out of here. 1st draft horse draft. 156 Kim Essendrup 00:57:55.834 --> 00:58:02.044 W, W, what are the metrics? Oh, how about I'm good enough. I'm smart enough and gosh darn it. People like me. 157 Kate Anderson 00:58:05.254 --> 00:58:15.274 But then, I think the, the last 1 here is, um, flooding or embracing the scare. Uh, sometimes it's hard. It's sometimes it's good to just think about what the. 158 Kate Anderson 00:58:25.845 --> 00:58:46.665 The worst case scenario really is well, that wasn't so bad uh, when we think about, you know, like, what happens if I show my team, this ugly presentation well, they're still gonna be my team and I'll probably get some feedback and some of it I'm gonna feel maybe, if you're really beating yourself and you're like, well feel stupid that I didn't think of that, but realistically we can be like, oh, thank you for. 159 Kate Anderson 00:58:46.694 --> 00:59:07.754 For helping me make this better. I think someone else in the chat mentioned, like, other people have skills. They bring to the team. Like, you can see it as an opportunity. That other people get to share their expertise with you, and that they get to feel valuable whenever you're working on something uh, you know, if you take your project plan and show it to your sponsor and they hate it. What's the worst that can happen? They could be upset. 160 Kate Anderson 00:59:07.994 --> 00:59:28.184 They might say, I don't like it. Uh, but you will probably still be employed after that. We're not getting fired for showing a project plan that makes our stakeholders are comfortable. We're just going to have to deal with, you know, their response to that. But there's just there's only choices and then there, they're the outcomes as a result of those traces. And for most things, we can really work our way through it. 161 Kim Essendrup 00:59:30.074 --> 00:59:50.114 Yeah, I really personally, worst case model scenario modeling is 1 of my go to, because it kind of 1 of my favorite negotiation books is getting to yes, and it has this concept of the best alternative to negotiated agreement. So, if I go into a negotiation and it doesn't work worst case, what's my best alternative? 162 Kim Essendrup 00:59:50.144 --> 01:00:11.264 To coming to some agreement, where do I go? What do I do? And if you go in to a negotiation, knowing what your alternative to getting what you need out of this negotiation, and it makes you, it puts you in a much much stronger position, which another book, I just recently read, said, the best plan a, is a very strong plan B and the same thing when you're feeling a posture. 163 Kim Essendrup 01:00:11.269 --> 01:00:32.414 About something if you're going to try to go for a job interview, or yeah, you're literally afraid if I give this presentation and it goes really badly, the contract gets canceled, I get kicked off the project and whatever it is just run the scenario and you'll think, well, I mean, if if they end the project over a presentation, then where they really, that kind of a. 164 Kim Essendrup 01:00:32.444 --> 01:00:46.214 Really and, you know, it's if you when you model that worst case, you really usually find it's not that bad. And if you realize that the worst thing is not that bad, then it lowers the stakes. And it can help you with any kind of stress or anxiety you might have. 165 Kate Anderson 01:00:47.324 --> 01:00:47.594 Um. 166 Kate Anderson 01:00:48.074 --> 01:01:09.074 And I I think Kim mentioned this earlier, but I think it's we're stating again. We know that a little bit of this feeling of oh, I don't know how to do. It is, is okay, because it helps us push ourselves, be better and look for ways to improve. And I know that because what I end up doing, when I feel afraid is I reach out. I do some of the things that we've talked about today I reach out. 167 Kate Anderson 01:01:09.104 --> 01:01:30.194 To my mentors, I talk about it with peers. I i1st draft, worst, drafted um, and I do some of the worst case scenario pieces. So, like, even if you feel this way. It's also not. It's not bad. It's okay. And hopefully you have tools like this. And if you don't, we, I hope you have new tools after our talk today, uh, to be able to go. 168 Kate Anderson 01:01:30.229 --> 01:01:35.504 Help you combat that and continue to improve in the way that you execute as project managers. 169 Kim Essendrup 01:01:37.304 --> 01:01:51.374 It really is. A little bit of imposter syndrome is actually a good sign. So, I guess, uh, don't be sad about it, realize that it can't be a strength because it really is it can be a positive motivator. So use. 170 Kim Essendrup 01:01:51.404 --> 01:02:00.884 That way don't let it drag you down and use it to realize you realize that what it is, and use it to motivate you to go and push yourself to do better. 171 Kim Essendrup 01:02:02.774 --> 01:02:03.464 Shall we recap. 172 Kate Anderson 01:02:03.734 --> 01:02:04.934 Let us recap cam. 173 Kim Essendrup 01:02:06.734 --> 01:02:14.534 All right, well, 2nd thing is everybody struggles with imposter syndrome once in a while and it's okay. 174 Kate Anderson 01:02:15.134 --> 01:02:18.014 Yeah, don't don't don't let them lie to you. They. 175 Kate Anderson 01:02:20.954 --> 01:02:39.314 So so then, if you are struggling, check the evidence, uh, don't let yourself fall on that trap, get some outside feedback, reach out to some, some mentors, some coaches and friends to talk it through and get their point of view. Uh, some of the, like, lowest points of my career, whatever I felt like, I'm a total fraud. Everybody's feedback. 176 Kate Anderson 01:02:39.344 --> 01:03:00.464 Saturday was that sounds like a no win situation. And so, even though I was worried that my skills were waning or that, I wasn't good enough. Everybody outside of me was like, that doesn't sound like you problem. Sounds like a system problem. Uh, and as I moved on to a new role, and I proved to get yet again, of course, I can that I can deliver and make a giant impact. 177 Kate Anderson 01:03:09.200 --> 01:03:10.905 Get that outside outside feedback. 178 Kim Essendrup 01:03:11.415 --> 01:03:21.375 Yeah, everyone takes their lumps things go wrong on the projects and that's really also when you're really susceptible. So yeah. Reach out for support, get mentorship, you can get through it. 179 Kate Anderson 01:03:23.324 --> 01:03:33.974 1 of the things we like to do on our podcast is you might be in trouble, uh, where we just sort of recap, uh, how you could be in trouble. So, Kim, do you want to lead us off with our our, uh, uh, you may be in trouble if. 180 Kim Essendrup 01:03:34.904 --> 01:03:44.444 Uh, well, you might be in trouble if you listen to this whole talk and you're walking away thinking well, I guess I really am a fraud. So you're. 181 Kim Essendrup 01:03:44.594 --> 01:03:49.244 You're just, uh, your normal in fact, you're, you're probably highly capable if you suffer with this a little bit. 182 Kate Anderson 01:03:50.084 --> 01:03:50.444 Um. 183 Kate Anderson 01:03:51.644 --> 01:04:12.644 But I, I really think that's it, right? If you walked away like, well, there's no way for me out of this, it's like, that is false. There's, there's a lot of help out there. And I think you'd be surprised that who would, who would like to help you. So, um, wonderful. Uh, well, then, I think from here, we'd love to open it up for questions, uh, or trouble. I don't know. 184 Kate Anderson 01:04:12.674 --> 01:04:14.024 Based off what this slide says. 185 Kim Essendrup 01:04:14.414 --> 01:04:16.874 We're showing up trouble. 186 Kim Essendrup 01:04:16.880 --> 01:04:25.815 Shouldn't be running the slides. I'm not worthy, but yeah, we've got a lot of great questions here so maybe we can run through some of these. 187 Kate Anderson 01:04:25.845 --> 01:04:37.965 I feel like 1 just came through the chat. Um, just to me 20 years ago, hiring managers looked for potential to fill a role these days. It feels like hiring managers expect someone who has already mastered the job requirements. 188 Kate Anderson 01:04:38.114 --> 01:04:59.144 How do you combat that? Uh, number 1 I agree that I think it's wild. And 1 of the reasons why I think it's wild. This isn't so much advice, but I have to say this is like, if you have already done something, do you want to do it again? Like, there are sometimes they'll be like, I want somebody who's, you know, like, broken down this type of equipment and has these specific skills to deliver. 189 Kate Anderson 01:04:59.204 --> 01:05:20.024 Specific thing, and I want somebody to do the exact same thing they did before and I think that's nonsense. People like to grow people like to change. So I, I do see that and I'm like, why would somebody come do that again? If they've already done it, it's very hard. They want to do something new after that. So, um, but in terms of how you combat that, how do you combat a hiring manager expecting somebody to be to have already mastered. 190 Kate Anderson 01:05:20.565 --> 01:05:41.475 I think that there's a bit of reading in between the lines. I think there's a way to take parallel experience and say that you can apply that to the particular, um, job description. I, I Kim, and I both believe that all technical knowledge can be learned and that the foundational PM skills are critical to get. Right? And that those. 191 Kate Anderson 01:05:41.654 --> 01:06:02.234 Those could translate to any industry or role so, if somebody's asking for somebody, like, specifically broken down this type of machinery, and then specifically done this type of work output, if you've broken down something before, and then had a type of output that's similar to that. I think you can take your experiences and talk to them in that interview and say, like, just like, I would. 192 Kate Anderson 01:06:02.714 --> 01:06:13.334 Casually brush off the idea that you have to have done the same thing and talk about 1, how excited you are to do that new thing and how you see so many opportunities to pull in that skill that you already have from a similar piece of work. 193 Kim Essendrup 01:06:14.834 --> 01:06:23.714 Yeah, pulling in, um, relevant skills, can I I think it's actually can be more beneficial because you have a new perspective, a different take on it and you can bring. 194 Kim Essendrup 01:06:23.780 --> 01:06:25.845 Probably a lot more to the role otherwise. 195 Kim Essendrup 01:06:29.654 --> 01:06:49.154 Um, in fact, to that topic of the technology, you know, our team, our, we're technical consultants. So you're out there facing the customer working with customers and clients. And the most important attribute of a consultant is, you have to have confidence, or you have to be able to at least project confidence because if you don't no matter. 196 Kim Essendrup 01:06:49.184 --> 01:07:09.854 How strong your technical skills are the customer will will see that you are not confident they'll suspect that you don't know as much as you probably do know and it just it's a downward spiral. It's bad. So, confidence is really the number 1 attribute we try to try to train for and try to develop and a consultant, because it really helps with all the other skills. 197 Kim Essendrup 01:07:13.394 --> 01:07:31.454 Let's see, we've got some other questions here. I've got a friend spent 20 years in logistics office from the military feels like an imposter in industry, because he doesn't have some of the recent industry certifications or a traditional job history, post military. It's hard for him to convey his skills and experience on a resume. How would you. 198 Kim Essendrup 01:07:31.485 --> 01:07:36.615 Recommend someone like him overcome recent feelings of inadequacy. 199 Kate Anderson 01:07:38.415 --> 01:07:39.795 Yeah, that's tough. 200 Kim Essendrup 01:07:40.335 --> 01:07:40.665 Yeah. 201 Kate Anderson 01:07:41.355 --> 01:07:52.575 That is a tough 1. Oh, there we go. I found it. Did you do? Uh, yeah, I have friends who are, uh, that's and it blows my mind that they can feel it. 202 Kate Anderson 01:07:52.635 --> 01:07:55.815 Sooner, but like, you did very stressful, hard work. How could you. 203 Kate Anderson 01:07:57.164 --> 01:08:16.064 So, 1, uh, I would the 1st thing is, I would encourage your friend to acknowledge that all of the experience, uh, that he has is super valuable. I know there's a lot of differences between how the military operates and, uh, and how would help the private sector operates. Um. 204 Kate Anderson 01:08:17.115 --> 01:08:25.065 I think that it's helpful. I think it can be helpful. There's actually some coaching. I almost want to recommend, uh, Kim, Joe who's who's done. 205 Kim Essendrup 01:08:25.484 --> 01:08:25.875 Yes. 206 Kate Anderson 01:08:25.875 --> 01:08:37.154 That that program, right? And that can help that's in particular, translate their experience from the military into something that, uh, jives a little bit more with industry jargon. 207 Kate Anderson 01:08:37.729 --> 01:08:58.874 So, I would recommend that he reach out to 1 of those groups. Uh, because I think that's a really helpful way for vets in particular to bridge that gap. Uh, uh, because they're getting, uh, coaching from folks, who know, and have been there. And we'll put them in a community of people who are similar to him, uh, who are also trying to navigate this strange change. Um, something that's pretty hierarchical. 208 Kate Anderson 01:08:58.903 --> 01:09:17.653 To something that is a strange nonsense, political world at times. Um, and so, uh, so, yeah, I would I would definitely recommend that as a 1st step and start getting engaged with the community. That's similar similar backgrounds. Uh, that can really help him cause they, they, they have that depth of his previous experience and how to bring that to the private sector. 209 Kim Essendrup 01:09:18.374 --> 01:09:19.844 It's called that's 2. 0. P. M. 210 Kim Essendrup 01:09:20.174 --> 01:09:35.234 And it's still, it's sort of that mentorship idea, but these mentorship programs are specifically aimed for for service members. And I haven't been through the service, but we've got a number in our team. And it's, it's a, it can be an adjustment. 211 Kate Anderson 01:09:36.075 --> 01:09:36.435 Yeah. 212 Kim Essendrup 01:09:39.105 --> 01:09:46.605 I like this, uh, Kate, how about the victory pose when the smaller large tasks are accomplished? Even if you're alone I say, especially when I'm alone. 213 Kim Essendrup 01:09:49.665 --> 01:09:54.315 Love again yes, it's simple. 1, but it's a good 1. 214 Kate Anderson 01:09:54.435 --> 01:10:10.785 Yeah, I started doing this, like, funky, uh, I'm watching stranger things season for and we, we liked my wife and I, we like to the Cape Bush song, uh, run up that hill before it got really popular. So, we're pumped that it's on the radio all the time right now, but I do this, like, stupid, like, hand, wavy, like little wiggle dance. 215 Kate Anderson 01:10:10.844 --> 01:10:11.564 And I just clicked the. 216 Kim Essendrup 01:10:11.564 --> 01:10:13.814 Original music video where they dance and like this. 217 Kate Anderson 01:10:14.114 --> 01:10:30.884 The visual music video is perfect and there are no notes. It's the best music video ever made. Uh, it's so good. I need I need faces. Um, but, yeah, I do. I definitely do a ton of body movement to to feel good. Um, and I will say when I'm on the horse and we're doing something really well, my horses name is. 218 Kate Anderson 01:10:31.964 --> 01:10:40.604 Victory poses like that that means that we've really accomplished something and we're doing a good job. So different poses for different situations. 219 Kim Essendrup 01:10:43.304 --> 01:10:46.724 All right, how are we doing on a time? Do we have time for a few more questions here? 220 Paul Bartal 01:10:48.164 --> 01:10:57.584 We're good on time it's quarter past the hour. Um, before we wrap up, though, I'd like you all to put them a little plug for your website and, um, tell us a little bit more about that. If you have a chance please. 221 Kim Essendrup 01:10:59.084 --> 01:11:05.324 Sure, um, so we've been doing our podcast for over 5 years. Now. I can't believe it's been that long. 222 Kate Anderson 01:11:05.384 --> 01:11:05.984 Same. 223 Kim Essendrup 01:11:07.334 --> 01:11:08.984 With kids not very sick of me. 224 Kate Anderson 01:11:09.404 --> 01:11:15.554 Oh, I could never. You take we just did episode on imposter syndrome and here you are being, like, I can't believe. 225 Kim Essendrup 01:11:17.504 --> 01:11:19.394 I am I'm my own worst patient. 226 Kim Essendrup 01:11:20.834 --> 01:11:30.374 But, yeah, you can come check us out. We're really anywhere you can find podcasts ons, Apple or stitchers Spotify. 227 Kate Anderson 01:11:30.794 --> 01:11:31.184 Over. 228 Kim Essendrup 01:11:31.664 --> 01:11:32.684 All those aggregators. 229 Kate Anderson 01:11:32.714 --> 01:11:33.974 Wherever you get your podcast. 230 Kim Essendrup 01:11:34.214 --> 01:11:39.644 Is project management happy hour. The website is P. M happy hour and we have the podcast out there. 231 Kim Essendrup 01:11:41.265 --> 01:12:02.175 So, yeah, come on out we also do other speaking engagements. We're going to be we spoke at Mile high. We're going to be speaking for maybe Toronto, Paul meadow in North Carolina and I'm speaking my career aspiration. Thanks to keep my muse speaking. 232 Kim Essendrup 01:12:02.204 --> 01:12:08.564 At global this December, so come on down the Vegas just go have a proper happy hour. 233 Kate Anderson 01:12:09.974 --> 01:12:10.364 And you. 234 Kate Anderson 01:12:10.514 --> 01:12:23.324 And you can find our website at PM, happy hour dot com, uh, which has a list of all of our podcasts. Uh, there were some of our slides. We had a moment up today, but we have a fun, little art for each episode. Uh, has a list of all of our episodes. 235 Kate Anderson 01:12:23.595 --> 01:12:36.375 Uh, and, uh, also, that is where our membership is, if you want to be part of a community of over 200, uh, project managers that are, uh, I'm going to say our type of project management nerd. 236 Kim Essendrup 01:12:36.645 --> 01:12:36.975 Which is. 237 Kate Anderson 01:12:37.095 --> 01:12:44.475 A little spicy, uh, and, uh, little spicy and really focused on delivering results. Um, so, and. 238 Kate Anderson 01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:49.004 You to the folks who listen, I see a bunch of listeners here. So thank you so much. 239 Kate Anderson 01:12:49.364 --> 01:12:54.644 I appreciate it and we're glad you're still with us. We can't believe it's been 5 years. So thank you so much. 240 Kim Essendrup 01:12:55.814 --> 01:12:57.704 Yeah. 241 Paul Bartal 01:13:02.954 --> 01:13:08.354 Anybody else has questions anything they'd like to share or ask feel free to do so. 242 Kim Essendrup 01:13:08.624 --> 01:13:16.004 Yeah, we got a lot of lighten the still trying to scroll, but if you've got something you really, really want to ask and just shout it out. 243 Mike 01:13:18.554 --> 01:13:35.474 Great job guys. So, um, question for Kate um, what's the biggest challenge for you to transition from project manager to, uh, PM role at, uh, PayPal? 244 Kate Anderson 01:13:36.554 --> 01:13:39.434 Um, the biggest challenge. 245 Kate Anderson 01:13:39.495 --> 01:13:42.645 In what way? Like say, say, a little more tell me more. 246 Mike 01:13:42.705 --> 01:14:00.585 Okay, so so, 1 of the things that I think is a challenge from going from project manager to, to your role is the whole notion of discovery and how you manage that. 247 Mike 01:14:01.214 --> 01:14:16.124 Um, and I think for a lot of people that I've worked with, they're like, hey, I don't get this discovery thing at all. So, um, so tell us about what you did to. I mean, do you feel comfortable in diving into discovery and. 248 Kate Anderson 01:14:16.124 --> 01:14:16.484 Loved. 249 Mike 01:14:16.484 --> 01:14:18.914 Laying it out and what you're doing. 250 Kate Anderson 01:14:19.184 --> 01:14:21.164 Yeah, discovery is my favorite part. 251 Kate Anderson 01:14:22.665 --> 01:14:42.705 In some ways, it's a little bit of a better fit for me. Um, I so I guess, how did I do it? I have to credit a couple things. 1. I went through a leadership development program that put me into other roles in the company. So, I went to a design role that basically taught me how to do discovery. I did a sales role that put me that helped me understand. 252 Kate Anderson 01:14:43.094 --> 01:15:04.064 How markets work, and how you want to structure a product to be, like a product offering to be able to make money from it. Uh, and then I, uh, and then I did chief of staff role where I learned a lot about how the company wants to structure it. Like Kim has so much more. I feel like I had like, a 6 month stint where I just learned so much about Kim knows, which is like, how. 253 Kate Anderson 01:15:04.094 --> 01:15:25.184 Do capex versus opex and what they're trying to get and and how they, how they prioritize initiatives. Like, I got an inside look into how things work. And then I and then my last 6 months of the program was doing a, um, a a product manager role. And so I have to, and even with all that I still have to credit, um, champions, uh, for me, uh, the 1st person that I worked with. 254 Kate Anderson 01:15:25.275 --> 01:15:42.915 Uh, in this in design, he was basically, like, I cannot believe that you're not a product manager. This is nonsense. Uh, he had experience at Amazon and which we know has a, a ton of focus on strong product management and, uh, he was like, you're a born product manager and was, like, oh, oh, thanks. I didn't know. 255 Mike 01:15:43.695 --> 01:15:46.365 So, following question, then most. 256 Mike 01:15:46.394 --> 01:16:01.874 Of us who have been project managers would feel totally imposters moving into product management. What would you suggest for them to do to start feeling like they could do that job. 257 Kate Anderson 01:16:02.684 --> 01:16:07.454 Yeah, uh, uh, I would, uh, man, discovery, um. 258 Kate Anderson 01:16:08.295 --> 01:16:28.635 Uh, I I think cause you still, I really wanna emphasize this you still need project management skills to do product management. Like, if you, if you're like, I have an idea for a, for a product feature. Don't worry we'll get this done in a week. Like, you don't want to be your own worst stakeholder. Right? So, so all like, I have 15 years. 259 Kate Anderson 01:16:28.694 --> 01:16:49.814 Periods and project management. So every day I am thinking about what, what are the resources on my team doing? Like, how many people do we have? What is the, you know, and I'm, I'm not managing it as closely as I used to, but I have to know that I have a, I always have a gut check on what we're capable of delivering. And I work very closely with my program manager who helps me understand what our. 260 Kate Anderson 01:16:49.844 --> 01:17:09.734 He is, and it's his job to figure out all like, all the project management stuff and I, sometimes I'm like, I want to do it and I'm like, that's his job. You let him do his job and I'm and he's better at it than I am, which is phenomenal. So I still strong partnership and you still need those guts skills and I wouldn't make him insane. If I just promise the moon. 261 Kate Anderson 01:17:11.595 --> 01:17:32.025 If you want to get into this, I think it's, I think it's a a good fit for people who love discovery. I am obsessed with the customer problem. Uh, like, people will like you said, just now, you were like, how do you make that transition? And I was like, what do you want to know? Like, in what way how, how can I like correctly answer this question and get to the root of what you're after? And I. 262 Kate Anderson 01:17:32.144 --> 01:17:53.234 I'm obsessed with that. Um, I, I want to dig until I find the the right problem and solve that problem. And, uh, and so if you have opportunities 1 of the things, Kim, and I talked a lot about on the podcast is, uh, how do you like we love talking to Tim. He's been on a couple times. He's a change management. 263 Kate Anderson 01:17:53.295 --> 01:17:55.575 He's a change management person really doesn't. 264 Kim Essendrup 01:17:55.575 --> 01:17:56.865 He's a guru. 265 Kate Anderson 01:17:58.425 --> 01:18:14.415 We loved him, but Kim, and I talk a lot about, how could you make sure your, uh, projects are successful? And and part of that is engaging the people who are the end users and so if you have any opportunity to work on the requirements from your end users, whether you partner with a BA. 266 Kate Anderson 01:18:14.444 --> 01:18:35.564 Or you can be sneaky and be, like, since we don't have a BA, I would really love to take this opportunity to use my business analysis skills, and just understand those requirements. And then, in a future interview, you can say, I, like, did customer interviews with the people who would be using the product. I understood what features were and weren't working for them or I understood the root cause of their problem. Like, that would give you the experience to. 267 Kate Anderson 01:18:35.569 --> 01:18:56.564 Into product management, and I will also say sorry is the long answer that everybody does product management differently. Uh, it depends on which team you're on. Like, some people do expect you to manage all the resources and not have a pmo or a project manager partner. Some people expect more, um, uh, knowledge of, uh, P L to be able to understand. 268 Kate Anderson 01:18:57.105 --> 01:19:17.745 Like, how profitable your particular feature is and I have interviewed at Amazon, and they were, like, you don't have enough PNL experience to work here. I was like, oh, it's funny cause I disagree, but all right dude, you, you could think that I think I would be great and you're nitpicking something that's dumb. Uh, so, yeah, that's a long answer. Um, so I'll pause there. 269 Mike 01:19:21.974 --> 01:19:23.054 Thank you, thank you for the answer. 270 Kim Essendrup 01:19:23.084 --> 01:19:23.234 Yeah. 271 Mike 01:19:25.364 --> 01:19:37.754 The key thing is being able to, it seems to me anyway, understanding, uh, you know, I've always said, unless some customer behavior changes, you haven't actually added any value. 272 Mike Sanders 01:19:39.584 --> 01:19:46.064 I have a quick comment. It seems to me that most of us are over achievers and over. 273 Mike Sanders 01:19:46.124 --> 01:20:07.214 Self critical by nature, we could get 20 compliments in a day and we'll focus on the 1 negative feedback were just obsessed with that in doing. So we scanning for issues all the time because that's what we have to overcome. So, I think we need to train our brains to take in positive terms. What have we done? What good things have we done it's not normal for. 274 Mike Sanders 01:20:07.245 --> 01:20:28.335 Over achievers and 2nd, we need to learn to love to love chaos and uncertainty and I think the fear of chaos and uncertainty causes us to lose confidence. And we need to understand that we always overcome those. We always have some sort of chaos. Always have some sort of uncertainty, and when we train our brain to understand that, we've always achieved. 275 Mike Sanders 01:20:28.484 --> 01:20:32.594 Over those, we'll have a different view of ourselves anyway. That's my comment. 276 Kim Essendrup 01:20:33.104 --> 01:20:34.274 100%. 277 Kate Anderson 01:20:34.274 --> 01:20:34.514 Well. 278 Kim Essendrup 01:20:34.514 --> 01:20:37.034 Absolutely, yeah very well said. 279 Kate Anderson 01:20:38.414 --> 01:20:43.634 Yeah, I totally agree. It's weird to be like I tried today and that was good enough. 280 Kate Anderson 01:20:45.944 --> 01:20:47.834 These are really hard. That's all you could say. 281 Kim Essendrup 01:20:51.585 --> 01:21:05.145 Well, I think we're just about time I want to thank everybody for the great engagement. That's our favorite kind of kind of meeting when you've got people engaged in having great conversation. It's, it's always fun to spend a little time with Phoenix. 282 Paul Bartal 01:21:07.545 --> 01:21:10.635 Katie Kim, thank you. So very much for your time today. This. 283 Paul Bartal 01:21:10.694 --> 01:21:21.944 It's a wonderful event hour flew by that's for sure. So we do appreciate it. Um, just a couple of reminders for everyone before we wrap up. We'll have your. 284 Paul Bartal 01:21:21.949 --> 01:21:43.094 Sent out to you, an email early next week. Shane is out of town, but when he gets back in town, he's going to go ahead and send me the list. So I will send that out to you as well as copy of the slide deck. Um, please be on the lookout for that and reach out to me. If you have any questions or concerns. Uh, again, as a reminder, our next virtual breakfast meeting is going to be. 285 Paul Bartal 01:21:43.099 --> 01:22:04.244 Friday, August, the 26 same time, 730 in the morning start, but please reach out to Kate individually. If you have additional questions or comments, please check out their website PM, happy hour dot com, and get engaged with their podcast. I know that it's something that's on my list of things to do for this weekend. So thank you again. 286 Paul Bartal 01:22:04.275 --> 01:22:17.145 For everyone's participation today, it was great to see everyone and without any other comments, we'll go ahead and wrap this call up. So thank you very much. Everyone have a great weekend. 287 Kate Anderson 01:22:17.685 --> 01:22:18.315 Thanks for your time. 288 Kim Essendrup 01:22:18.315 --> 01:22:19.815 Thanks everybody. 289 Ken Goebel 01:22:19.845 --> 01:22:20.265 Thanks. 290 Paul Bartal 01:22:22.935 --> 01:22:25.215 All right, thank you, Kate. Thank you. Ken. Wonderful. 291 Kim Essendrup 01:22:26.085 --> 01:22:27.585 Yeah, thanks. That's fun. 292 Paul Bartal 01:22:28.485 --> 01:22:32.895 Yeah, and you're Welcome back anytime you'd like we'd love to have you guys. 293 Kim Essendrup 01:22:33.165 --> 01:22:43.665 Yeah, well now you've got openings for presentations all next year and now we've just talked about overcoming imposter syndrome. Hopefully you have a whole bunch of. 294 Kim Essendrup 01:22:43.729 --> 01:22:48.974 Applications from everybody who was on today's and breakfast meeting because that, and they're going to. 295 Kate Anderson 01:22:48.974 --> 01:22:50.114 Your expertise. 296 Kim Essendrup 01:22:50.294 --> 01:22:51.554 Yes, come and do it. 297 Kate Anderson 01:22:51.824 --> 01:22:52.244 That. 298 Kate Anderson 01:22:52.334 --> 01:22:53.804 That that's big.